Subject: [Strat] Nick Penergast's "Advanced" decks. Date: Sat, 27 Sep 1997 20:07:02 -0400 From: Dan Lewis On Sat, 27 Sep 1997, Nick Pendergast wrote: > anyone can play (cheaters use these decks most) > 1. Land Distruction > 2. Direct Damage > 3. Stompy > 4. Discard > 5. White Weenie > 6. Vise Deck > 7. Goblin Okay, here's what I think. Note that I am focusing entirely on type II. LD just isnt good. You can destroy 20 of my lands, and my 2/2 Knight will kill you. Stompy is not a cheater's deck (what do you mean by that anyway?), as there are much better ways to cheat. Stompy isn't very hard to play, but it isnt that easy either. One minor mistake in sideboarding or Giant Growthing at the wrong time, or not using your Quirion Ranger at the right time, or when to play the Heart so you dont screw yourself. Discard really isnt a deck type IMO. A deck based on Stupor, Odylic Wraith, Abyssal Specter, Agonizing Memories, and Coercion really doesnt exist. It could, but 2/2 2/3 creatures for 4 mana really isnt all that good. The reason why it takes so little thought is because if you dont make them discard, your turn is "Untap. Draw. Done." and you dont do anything on their turn. This really isnt even worth mentioning. Vise decks dont really exist either. No Vise in t2 (Miser's cage is 3 mana, which is WAY to slow). White Weenie, at least good ones, take a lot of thought. When to Abeyance/Tithe, whether to drop an Arrows or go for the 4 Knight overrun, Armageddon or not, all these decisions make White Weenie a good or bad deck. WW w/o any choices (basically, 18 lands, 38 critters, and 4 Crusades) is just stupid, although, in today's t2, it could actually work :) Goblin and DD are basically the same sort of deck. And if you think it takes no thought to play, you obviously haven't played it. I played Counterpost from last November (literally from the week MI became legal, playtesting for friends who were goin to PT Dallas) until this July. I started playing Deadguy Sligh around that time, and you'd be amazed how hard that thing is to play. Do you bolt their Knight or hold back, hoping that you'll draw enough direct damage in the next 2 turns to kill them? At States, I had the dilemna of playing a Forgotten Orb deck, who had 3 cards in hand, and a Worb and Erg Raiders on the table. I had enough DD to put him at 3 and have enough mana open so that an incinerate or Fireblast would kill him, but if he drops a creature OR has a counter, and I dont kill that Erg Raider and topdeck the DD, I lose. What do you do? This situation seems unlikely, but when you play this deck you usually end up winning on your last possible turn. > > Some Thought > 1. Necro > 2. millestone > 3. Marogeddon (or similar versions) > 4. Black Ice > 5. Stormbind > "Necro" is not a deck type. It is a card. ControlNecro is one thing, that takes a lot of thought, but HackerPotence is more of a BlackIce w?Necro over Worbs. That's much easier to play, but I'll concur that they both take a good amount of thought. Millstone - The only thought needed is the capacity to ignore the urge to play it at a tournament. It's just bad. MaroGeddon - I love this deck. It consistantly makes top 8 in tournaments, but never wins. The problem is that it really doesnt take much player skill, save for when you have a bad matchup. Basically, if you are playing a base red deck, and you 'Geddon with a creature that they have problems killing, you win. If you play against base black, and you get out a Dervish, you (should) win. If you hit Counterpost, you're going to have to get out a City of Solitude and then Armageddon with basically any creature out, or AbeyanceGeddon them, which is just a pain in the butt. You should beat Millstone via Gaea's Blessing (reason #1 not to play Millstone), and as log as Sligh doesnt get a significantly better draw than you do, one Wisdom followed by a PhatGeddon will win you that match. However, you'll lose most matches to Stompy and White Weenie (MaroGeddon doesnt deal well with decks that throw out a bazillion creatures and run on 1-2 mana, or with creatures backed up by plows). It's a good metagame deck if you expect Buried Alive and/or Sligh, but it's not really a great deck to play if you want a lot of decisions every turn. Then again, most good decks arent very complicated. I'm suprised you'd group Black Ice here. Stompy and Black Ice are opposites of each other. Just take out the Lurgys for Stairwells, the Bounties for Contagions, and run Quicksands and Rituals. Seems a lot alike to me. I dont even know what a Stormbind deck is anymore :) I havent seen one in uh.....wow....played one that beat me in Meridan,Ct. because I chumped out and got decked. Heh. Basically, of the decks you've listed, you have to take into consideration that to be worth discussing strategy about, they have to be good. Most people have a fun deck or 2, but I dont see fun = "losing with a weird deck". Also, you seem to group faster, horde decks as 'no thought', which I think is grossly unfair. It's amazing how much thought it takes for a Stompy beat a deck with Man'o'War and Boomerang, and how much thought it takes that Man'o'War deck to beat Counterpost, and Counterpost to beat Stompy. It's somewhat matchup based, as you dont have to think very much when you play against no one :) Let's go back to Counterpost for a bit. It's considered a high-thought deck by most, but when you face another counterpost deck, it's all about drawing more ouptosts and trickeries than your opponenet does. However, Stompy vs. Stompy is actually really hard to play. Is the card in his hand a Giant Growth? Is he playing Lhurgoyfs? If I cast my Rouge Elephant now, will I have the mana to cast my Goyf when I draw it? Much harder to decide than "Can he Counter my Outpost???!?!?" :) Dan Lewis Connecticut State Type 2 and Sealed Champion dlewis2@tufts.edu | danl@geeks.org | danl@dragon.org