Subject: Re: FW: Deep Blue Date: Mon, 30 Nov 1998 15:05:53 -0700 (MST) From: Jim Hamp To: "Otwell, Chris" , woody@wizards.com, dci@wizards.com, vincent@wizards.com, fkusumot@ix.netcom.com Hi! I am writing to answer some of Chris's points in this letter. It probably won't make a difference at this late date, but I wanted to add my $.02. I am likewise adding Frank to the list. On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, Otwell, Chris wrote: > > Well, after the past 2 month of observation and evidence gathering, we > > really don't have enough available to prove that this deck style is truely > > broken in any format. The problem with this statement is that we are not dealing with broken deck styles so much as a broken card. And we don't need empirical evidence that a card is broken, we can see it by examining the card logically against the logic of the game. I hope the points I will be making are enough to show the Tolarian Academy broken without having to have playtesting evidence. > > this deck yet. The Magic Community and The DCI needs more time and > > evidence before giving the deck it's Death Nail. I don't think here it is necessary to give the deck it's 'Death Nail'. I think slowing it down by banning the TA is sufficient to balance it out against other decks. > > I look back to the > > Summer > > that Necro Ruled all. It took about 6 to 9 Monthes before we were truely > > sure that anything in this deck was both 1) broken and that 2) the players > > could not easly stop it with better prepared deck construction. I think > > that in the case of Deep Blue, that neither piece has been proven as of > > yet. After all, we have the tools available that can keep this deck in > > check without further degenerating the environment. > > This analogy is a bit suspect. First, Necro was a deck style that relied on the fast card drawing of Necro to take away the drawback of an otherwise fast deck whose only weakness was that it emptied your hand quickly. Necro in and of itself did nothing but take that weakness out of the picture. What makes a card or a deck balanced is that it has strengths and weaknesses. The Necro deck in practice was a black weenie/discard deck, a balanced deck style with the weakness of emptying the players hand fast. But the Necro took that weakness away and thus overbalanced the deck. In other words, Necro was one deck style. The Academy, on the other hand (the card,not the deck) can be used in any number of ways. Blue has several very powerful effects (card drawing, bounce, permission) whose weakness is the lack of speed. If you take steps to weaken the classic Academy/Mind Over Matter/Stroke of Genius deck, it leaves us with many other ways to abuse the fast mana generated by the Academy. Imagine Academy/Capsize, when you can never get more than one land out because your opponent is Capsize/buying back on turn 2. Or Academy/Mind Games, throw in a Memory Crystal or two and you're tapping every land during their upkeep starting turn 2. Blue has *lots* of disruption/permission whose only drawback is that it's slow. After all, that's the central theme of the color. But the Academy, like Necro, takes away that drawback. Unlike Necro, however, which had only one deck style it could supplement, the possibilities of the Academy are so many and varied that they are better summed than detailed. And a very succinct summary is that with the Academy, Blue has no weaknesses. > > I would like the DCI to take a serious look at the Environment, the Card > > Sets in existance, and the evidence that we have gather so far. As I do > > not believe that Magic is truely ready for the DCI to intervence with > > corrective measures to stop this deck. > > I would like them to look at not only the evidence but the reasoning behind it. Look at *why* this deck is so powerful. Look at why Necro was so powerful. Then apply the logic to the situation. > > What this deck does do, is keep many of the other decks currently in > > existance, Honest. I would point out that 'keeping a deck honest' does not mean 'force you to design your deck with this deck in mind, or lose'. Sure, we often design sideboards (as opposed to main decks) with other deck styles in mind. But most of the sideboard cards that beat the Academy are red, which pretty much forces a player to play blue or red. In reality, what this deck does is distort the tournament scene much the same way Necro did. In that time frame you either played Necro or anti-Necro. Now you must either play Academy or Anti-Academy. > > What I mean by this, is that good focused, well > > designed decks will continue to compete with it, on an intelligent level. I disagree. Good, focused, well-designed decks designed without this deck style in mind will get beat. If you design them with this deckstyle in mind (i.e. Sligh with meltdown in the main deck) you may compete with it but that's not Magic, that's can-you-draw-your-Anti-Academy-first. And it also will not stop the many other decks that can be designed around the Academy that will be equally as powerful. > > If you remove this deck from the environment, then I predict that what > > will > > evolve from this move, is that Survival/Recur infinate recursion Deck will > > take over completely. Or the ever-so nearly broken Fluctator deck will > > dominate Extended (the next Major Deck from the Council of Masters). > > Afterall, by killing the Blue deck, does not clear either Standard or > > Extended from a deck that can go into a infinate style of kill, or that > > can > > kill on Turn 1 or 2. Deep Blue only keep these decks in check, allowing > > Mono-Red and Hatred to be a good decks as well. > > Certain deck styles may dominate, but not so thoroughly as the Academy decks. Nor am I stating that this should be done to kill a deck style. As Chris has stated to me verbally, the MoM/Stroke/Spiral deck can still work without the Academy, it's just slower. And that's as it should be. Lock decks or decking decks have been around since day one. But they have a built-in weakness that keeps the balance between speed and control. The Academy gives Blue both speed and control. I predict that if the Academy is not banned, the tournament scene will evolve into a question of what is the most powerful...Academy/Stroke, Academy/Capsize, Academy/Mind Games, or Academy/. Of course, there'll be a few rebels who play four Meltdown and four Pyroblast in the main deck in an attempt to keep the Blue Invasion honest. But Green/White or mono-Black or Blue/White or all the other combinations that used to be viable will go by the wayside as we are forced to choose between the several Blue decks available and a few red or Blue/red. > > Thanks for your time in Reading this message. > > Likewise thank you for your attention and time > > Christopher E. Otwell > > > > Member of the "Council of Masters". > > Jim Hamp Member of nothing much *************************************************************************** * So good night, you moonlight ladies * HELP! I've * * And rock-a-bye, Sweet Baby James * modemmed and I * * Deep greens and blues are the colors I choose * can't hang up! * * Won't you let me go down in my dreams * * * And rock-a-bye, Sweet Baby James * * * --James Taylor ********************* * _Sweet_Baby_James The Hampster * * jkhamp@frii.com * ***************************************************************************