Subject: Re: Stop printing decklists... Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 15:59:29 -0500 From: "Bob Dove, esq." To: *DISCLAIMER* This will probably be quite long-winded...I apologize in advance, but I have several things to say, so please bear with me. Thanks. Ok, I don't really intend this to be a flame, so please don't take it like that. I understand, in a way, your frustration with the Dojo, because it has such a tremendous effect on competitive Magic and reaches to such a wide audience. However, I totally disagree with your "stop giving decklists" policy...while I agree it would probably help diminish the so-called "Dojo Effect", I also think it would turn the Dojo into a ridiculous parody of itself. It would be like a football playbook without the plays...if Frank decided to delete all the decklists from tourney reports, I think that the Dojo would eventually just dry up...no more Deck Workshop...many people would not post reports because they want to share their deck with others, and they should have that right...preventing them from doing so just because a few people don't like it is not only wrong, it is (technically) censorship...but I'm not going to go into that aspect of it. I do, however, want to respond directly to some of the things you said... "Being able to play a 'dojo' deck and win a tournament with it, without any thought, playtesting, planning or whatever is a very bad thing for the game." Ok, I have seen people try this, and I have one thing to say: it doesn't work. Unless you have incredible luck, you will not win a tourney with a deck you just copy and don't playtest at all...Granted, I've done quite well with decks I've made literally minutes before the tournament, but they were decks that I was familiar with in the first place...copying a deck that you have little to no experience playing straight from the Dojo, with no playtesting or anything, will not win you a tournament (unless you have that incredible luck I mentioned earlier)...I'm not saying it couldn't (or hasn't) happen...I'm just saying that roughly 95% of the time, if you do that, you're just asking to get served by some kid who at least knows how to play HIS 'Dojo' deck, or anyone else who knows their own deck well. "I have read many articles/comments from magic players about how the game is: (1) not fun anymore (2) too competitive (3) been ruined by the protour (4) dying because there are too many new cards sets and who can afford to buy all this stuff anyway..." Ok, I'd like to respond to each of these separately (hey, I said it would be long-winded, didn't I?)... (1) I've talked to many people about the "fun" aspect of the game (you can also see the thread that Cathy Nicoloff (sp?) started about this area of the game), and, while some of them said that they felt much of the fun has gone out of the game, more of them answered that they still had fun playing. Some people believe that so-called "competitive" players play simply for money and "fame"...while I'm sure there are people of whom this is true, I believe they are the minority. Many people play Magic "competitively" because they have fun competing against others...I know I do... Magic is a game, and games are meant to be fun/entertaining...however, games are also contests between opponents, and (unless one of you is playing TurboZvi) one of you will win. (2) As for Magic being "too competitive", I disagree...I know it is very competitive on the higher levels (Pro Tour, nationals, etc.), but I don't think it's "too competitive"...I don't think a game can be too competitive...If a person plays Magic strictly for the fun of playing...if they love weird combo decks that take 20 turns to set up...I doubt they think of it as too competitive...maybe they think that way about "professional" Magic, but not the game in general...Of course, I could be wrong, but I don't think so... (3) I don't think Magic has been "ruined" by the Pro Tour (or anything else, for that matter)....if a game has been "ruined", would it attract new players consistently? Would people who currently play continue to play? I know many people blame the Pro Tour for "ruining" the game they once (or still) loved, but I think they're wrong...I think they just got tired of playing...boredom, lack of imagination, impatience...all of these are factors that would contribute to someone quitting a game...I don't think the Pro Tour really has anything to do with it. (4) And I don't think that WotC continuously printing new sets is "killing" the game...3-4 sets per year is not as bad as it could be...3-4 sets a year, where roughly half (or, as has been the case recently, more than half) of the cards are either difficult to use or simply unusable (read: suboptimal), is not excessive, IMHO. As for being unable to pay to keep up with new sets...I always find statements like that amusing. I haven't really bought cards since Origins '97 (a few stray singles here and there, but basically no packs except for sealed tourneys), and I have managed to keep up with the new sets pretty well. It's all about preparation and knowing what to buy/what NOT to buy...patience IS a virtue. :o) "Now when a player prepares for a tournament, he/she has to prepare to play against all the local decks and all the Dojo decks..." I think you're putting too much of a gap between "local" decks and "Dojo" decks...in my experience, many of the "local" decks are simply variants of "Dojo" decks...maybe a different kill mechanism, some surprises, whatever...if you see someone playing in a tournament (T2), there is probably a 50% (or higher) chance that there is a similar deck somewhere on the Dojo (I am discounting the 9 year olds playing in their first tourneys with their 100+ card decks with super tech like Basilisk/Lure). "I would like to make a request that the Dojo no longer prints complete decklists for constructed decks." In essence, you are requesting the "death" of the Dojo...you may not believe me, but I know people who go to the Dojo for new ideas...they look through decks (esp. in the Deck Workshop), not really looking at the deck as a whole, but the cards that make it up...they might see a card they'd forgotten about, and go make another, completely different, deck around the same card....The Dojo is a haven for Magic players, and we should treat it as such. So what if we don't like everything about it? I'm sure there are things about your parents, your girl/boyfriend, even yourself, that you don't like...is that any reason to willingly kill them or yourself? I don't think so. My point is this: whether you like it or not, the Dojo is the biggest idea factory for Magic in the world, and we should support it 100%. Thanks for listening, and sorry for typing an incredibly long and (probably) boring post... "Bob Dove, esq." (aka Terry Richardson) Team SubOp "Happy people have no stories." PS-BTW, what would be the point of posting sealed decks? I could kinda see the point for the top 8 or whatever of a major event (Grand Prix, Pro Tour, etc.), but otherwise, it would be worthless, IMHO. Oh well...