Subject: RE: Cheating. Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 00:19:58 -0500 From: "GREG WALDECK" To: I wanted to weigh in on the subject of cheating. I'm not sure how rampant the problem is but the major issue seems to be intent. Did someone cheat or simply make a mistake? My theory is that there should be NO excuse for ignorance at the PT level of Magic. We should expect our opponents to both know, and play by, the rules. One solution to all of this, is to simply ignore intent altogether. If a mistake is made then the penalty is applied, regardless of it was made from ignorance, carelessness or cheating. . Now since we don't have enough judges to patrol our game at this point we must place that burden on the opponent. I think, the rules should be changed for B class events or higher to where any instance of the rules being broken by your opponent is automatic loss of game. For instance if your opponent taps a City of Brass and forgets to record the damage. You WIN!!! It doesn't matter why he didn't record the damage. Maybe he's careless. I am. Hell, I'm known as Slopmaster G. because I'm such a careless player. Maybe he's stupid. Well, read the rules again buddy and better luck next time. These events are high enough level that everyone in them should be expected to be competent. Maybe he's cheating on purpose. Great! I WIN!!! My solution would be as follows: Each player would have until the end of a players turn to "make right" any errors in play. Such that if a player made an error on a City and forgot to record the damage immediately he/she would have until they declared their end of turn phase, to correct the error. If after that point they do not record the damage their opponent simply tells them they forgot to take the damage and that's the end of the game. They lose. If there is a dispute, then a judge must be called to resolve it, and if the players cannot agree on what happened, they both receive warnings. Two such warnings and it's a three month suspension or 200 DCI point loss. I think most players, when there errors are pointed out, will realize that they did make a mistake and own up to it. This puts the burden on the opponent to watch and police their own game. Two game losses to the above rule is suspension for three months or 200 DCI point loss. I think this rule would solve a lot of problems especially at the A & B class events where cheating or errors are really uncalled for. Some cheating is virtually inevitable in a game as complex and unorganized as Magic. But, since we don't yet have the resources to adequately judge all our events with neutral parties the next best thing is to police them with our opponents. By make the penalties harsh enough we render cheating less likely in the first place. I don't know very many Pro players who would intentionally cheat if they knew that if their opponent caught them making such an "error" they would lose the game. For instance in Nate's example with the Slivers, he would be very gutsy not to throw his own sliver in the graveyard if he knew that if his opponent caught his error, he would lose. In the other example, if the guy throws his wyvern in the graveyard and doesn't catch his error before the end of the turn. He loses!!! Every Pro player knows the rules of protection. If they don't they shouldn't be on the Pro Tour. The dice thing has been covered. WOTC should mandate paper and pencil at any C class event or higher. Card shuffling and manipulation is more difficult, simply because it's harder to catch. One good rule change is a mandatory shuffle by the opponent in class C events or higher. And all players should be required to use black or red sleeves as the card backs are hopelessly color coded now. All of the problems Nate brought up are solvable. But WOTC and the DCI are going to have to decide if the Pro Tour is for real, or just a good marketing too. If we want the rest of the world to take this game seriously we have to clean up its image eventually. The medicine may be tough to swallow, but in the long run it could save the game. Greg Waldeck Team TCG