Subject: Re: The Dojo Effect Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 17:15:27 -0400 From: David Meeson Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.strategy Kendall, first let me say, your arguments were well-written, and I can understand why you feel how you do. However, I don't necessarily agree with you. Kendall Redburn wrote: > The Dojo in national events > What effect does the Dojo have in national events? This would be hard > to measure. While it is true that inexperienced players don't win > national events with decks copied from the dojo, it is also true that > inexperienced players don't win national events. The Dojo don't enter > into it. Most of the top players should, and probably are, quite > capable of designing the same decks as other top players. There > simply aren't enough cards in any format for there to be twenty or > more really top decks. Four or five top decks? Yes. Twenty? No. With > over 400 people attending regional qualifiers, you would expect to see > roughly 50 players each with one of eight different main theme decks. > Even if the Dojo didn't exist! Hrm. I think the main thing you're not taking into effect is the transition from one deck "archetype" to another. Due to deck types becoming popular, you often will see one deck type change to be able to remain competitive in the field. That's the real skill of the Pro Tour Player. A perfect example of this is the transition from White Weenie to WW/x, or the changes made to Sligh to get Deadguy Red. I wouldn't consider either of these pairs to be "the same type" of deck. > Dojo groupies > Teenagers download a deck from the Dojo, build the deck, and then > practice in groups with each other. They drill with the deck, > critiquing, arguing and explaining the deck amongst themselves, until > they know how every single card in the deck is to be played. I have > watched as one teenager drilled a younger acolyte in the play of a Pox > deck. "Never cast a funeral charm on the opponent, you idiot!" The > boy chastised his opponent, and the other groupies berated the young > player for making a silly mistake. These kids don't build decks, nor > do they learn the subtleties of resource management, timing, bluff and > risk taking. They simply drill the deck until they can play it blind. > And then they take it to the local tournament. Kids, even ones with the intelligence and internet-savvy to pull decks off the Dojo, are lacking one HUGE characteristic that older players have in abundance: maturity. If I sit down across from a kid, I pretty much assume he's playing, if not EXACTLY, then something close to a deck type I've seen before and prepared for. This is in my favor. My deck is ready for Carbon Sligh, or for Carbon Fish, or whatever else my junior opponent might be playing. However, I don't think the Dojo has groupies. It implies these kids are spending hours a day reading, learning, studying Magic. In which case they wouldn't be playing an exact copy off the Net. =) > The Dojo in local events > This is where the Dojo simply does the most harm. Consider deck > building skill as a Chi Squared Curve. For the non statistical, it > means must people are grouped in the lower portion of the curve. There > are very few really bad deck builders, as they improve quickly. There > are a huge number of mediocre deck builders, and as you get better, > the number of people at that skill level continues to drop. So in > any local scene, most of the deck builders there should be medium to > good skill level. And yet, you will at any local tournament meet up > with 80% of the decks being dojo decks. These decks represent the > skill level of less than 5% of the population of the world. I have > been to a sanctioned type II event where over 50% of the decks > registered were mono red sligh variants. A deck builder doesn't have > to build a deck to beat the local crowd, he or she has to build a deck > to beat the best decks in the world. See, I disagree. Local events are where I really get to shine. I have people who pull for me to win because I don't play ninety hours a week. I go in there with what I think is a good deck, MY good deck, and I play. I know about Sligh. I know about CounterBurn. I prepare for them when I am building. I hope I'm getting better, and in turn, I hope I'm making my local opponents better. I am all about rogue decks, as my moniker might imply. > That is why deck builders are becoming fewer and fewer. The choice is > simple, build your own deck and lose, or copy a deck and practice it > to death so you might win. It takes a lot of hard work, patience, > insight, skill and determination to build a world class deck. If you > can do it, then you are a pro-tour player. If you can't, you can't > even beat the local yahoo's that have been playing for 6 months, and > have group down loaded a steel pox deck. Well, I would disagree. I think deckbuilders are raising the bar, not lowering it. I think I'd rather design the next deck archetype than win a tournament. The deck is 3/4ths of the game. Someday, people are going to look back at this summer, and say, "Hey, remember that Dave guy and that Zvi guy? Those were cool decks." That's what I'm shooting for. I hope the people I play against are thinking the same way. You see, since I always play rogue decks, it causes my local scene to start expecting something wild from me. And so in turn, they try to build decks that will beat it. So here we all are, trying to build the next great beat-all deck. > The sad truth is, the Dojo is killing deck building. There is no > longer any fertile ground in which to nurture deck building skills. > The harsh local tournament lesson is copy or lose. Any new person > coming into this game almost any where in the world with internet > access is forced to compete against decks designed by the brightest > most experienced magic players in the world. They are the Deck > Savant's. Players that can play any deck flawlessly, but can't put > two cards together themselves in any creative fashion. Forever doomed > to copy and never to contribute. I hope this isn't true in your area. I know I couldn't play TurboZvi (although SRB's another matter, my grandma can play that), but I can play the decks I build. Like I've said, that's 3/4ths of the challenge. > This is the true legacy of the Dojo I guess it's all a matter of how you look at any resource. It's like writing a paper in college. If you go out and copy something straight out of the library, you're going to fail. But if you go out, work at it, you can create something you'll be proud of and score the "A". It might take a couple of times around to learn this. There'll always be someone who thinks they can take the short road in. But in the end, the only one who really wins is the one who comes away with more. More knowledge, more self-esteem, more pride in their work ... that's a helluva lot better than store credit. Dave Meeson, the Rogue Elephant meesond@stelnj.com