Subject: Re: Stronghold Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:44:53 -0500 From: Len Blado > I agree that the buybacks here are too expensive, and for the most part > it didn't make out well. I would like to point out, however, two cards > which are at least useful in Standard: Foul Imp and Bottomless Pit. The > Foul Imp is a 2/2 Flier for BB which does 2 damage to you when it comes > into play. In most Black weenie decks, I would consider it a better > flier than Skulking Ghost or Fledgling Djinn. The BB can be a pain, but > if you can swing it for Black Knight and Dauthi Horror, than the Imp is > worth it too. Two words: Lava Hounds. A 4/4 Celerity critter for RR2 is a better deal than a 2/2 Flier for BB, yet it never caught on. Why? Because taking that damage before you even get to use the thing is too much of a drawback in constructed. Removal is just too potent (even in a post-Swords environment) to throw away life needlessly. You can easily get 2 damage a turn out of a Shadow creature for 2 mana, why waste the life? > The Bottomless Pit is a card I see as having enormous > potential. A very quick mono-black weenie with Cursed Scrolls could > empty it's hand by turn 3-4, then use this to make sure anything it > can't or chooses not to cast doesn't clog up the ability to scroll. > Meanwhile, a more reactive or proactive deck will be losing the ability > to save cards for the most useful time. Combo with other discard to > quickly set up a Sceptre-ish use it or lose it situation. Also, combined > with Megris (sp.?) it could provide a threat to many decks, losing a > card a turn and taking two damage, plus two more from a facilitated > scroll. I also consider this better than Forsaken Wastes against most > control decks. This is a nice card, but even speed decks don't want to necessary play out their hand. Along with neutralizing your opponent's ability to control the game, you're virtually guaranteeing that if they draw a card like Wrath of God that your own game is over. It also has a true nemesis in Sylvan Library- your opponent can control what they're playing, while you depend exclusively on luck of the draw. > I agree here. What do you think of the Intruder Alarm, or whatever it's > called, that doesn't let critters untap until another is cast? Does it > have potential in a PropOrb, where getting mana to cast a creature could > be problematic, or is it a waste? As an anti-critter member, Intruder Alarm is pretty pathetic. In the early game, when you want to slow up the assault, it's unhelpful, since they have creatures to play. In addition, it's "trumped" by Man o' War. Probably the only real use for it is in infinite combos. > Which creatures do you think will make a showing in Standard. While some > of them are good, most have stronger and faster counterparts in other > sets. For example, the Skyshroud Archer who gives fliers -1/-1 is nice > against Frenetic, but overall I consider Llanowars, Rangers, and > Guildmages better 1/1's for 1. The only two green creatures I considered worthwhile were the Endangered Armadon and the Wall of Blossoms. That's why I referred to the creature draw as 'so-so'. > The buyback fog seems only marginal, as > it is green. I don't see much need for green to prevent that many > creature attacks. I think your vision is a bit narrow here. Green doesn't have to be "Stompy and that's all". Green has a plethora of effects that don't involve beating someone down with midrange creatures. Combining this into a Blue/Green deck could give very nice levels of environmental control. The thing to remember about the buyback Fog is that it's fast and easy. Unlike methods like Propaganda, you need absolutely no support for it and it still works (albeit very temporarily). Combined with some method of recursing land (which is not even remotely a challenge), it becomes a permanent creature neutralization method. Barring counterspelling it or removing all of your land, your opponent will be faced with no use for their combat creatures. > > White- White is tied with Red for 3rd place here. There's > >nothing really all that revolutionary about what White got. Some > >of the creatures are drop-in replacements for creatures you > >already have in your white decks, with no real gain in power. > >White's removal spell, as is par for the course in the modern > >day, is rather pathetic. > > I think Smite has some use for creature removal in comparison to what > else we have available now. I've heard this a lot and I'm startled people think this. If you're playing a white deck with creatures, and your opponent attacks, and you block, *and* you wouldn't kill the creature anyway, you're probably not playing a real game of Magic. White creatures are almost all offensive creatures- the reason you need creature removal is to clear a path, not to stave off damage. Smite is a loser. > Some of the Kor, like the flying one, are > good too. The Soltari Champion who gives all your other attackers +1/+1 > is also a pretty good White crature. The Angel is nice, but probably too > expensive to see regular tournament use. She ain't Serra. I don't like the flying Kor for the simple reason that it's too expensive. 4 mana is midrange creature mana, not weenie mana. And when you consider that the Kor ability is useless unless you can field at least two creatures, it's unlikely it would be effective as a 'standalone' creature like, say, Blinking Spirit. The cheaper Kor are fairly strong, although they are likely to be less strong than folks with only a Prerelease under their belt would initially believe. The Kor ability is 'Banding Plus', and while it's tremendous in Sealed, will have less use in the heavy creature removal environment of Standard. > I don't know what Horn of Greed is, but Mox Diamond looks pretty > inefficient from here. In the PropOrb deck it will be good, but overall > it seems less than useful, possibly this will be the Rathi Dragon of > Stronghold. Not even mentioning the cards green received in Stronghold, white has both Land Tax and Tithe, each of which work fantastically well with the Diamond. Indeed, any deck that needs to operate on low land can make very good use of the Diamond. Also, you should remember that the Diamond is a multiple color mana source, and it produces this mana without the vulnerability of a Birds, the pain of Cities/Painlands, the unreliability of Reflecting Pool, and the limited use of Gemstone Mine/Undiscovered Paradise. > I think that Ensnaring Bridge has alot of potential. The low > hand size could be a problem, but in conjuunction with a Cursed Scroll, > you could kill creatures that won't be stopped by the Bridge, and then > start smacking the opponent. Generally defensive cards work best in defensive decks- the main limitation of the Ensnaring Bridge is that it functions poorly in a standard countermagic deck. I've been experimenting (via proxy) with Ensnaring Bridge in a deck based around recursive Daring Apprentices and Hesitation, and I believe there might well be a deck there (indeed, Bottomless Pit is a possible card for such a deck). While Cursed Scroll might initially seem like a perfect combo with this, I don't believe it is. Cursed Scroll works best in an offensive deck, and renders the Ensnaring Bridge useless in many circumstances. > Also, the Portcullis, while it is a bit > expensive, could definately be divisve factor in one weenie deck vs. > another. If you're not playing main deck artifact removal yet, it's time > to start. I see the Portcullis as having two major uses: 1. Creature limitation. By itself, it's probably near useless. It's basically a tool for locking in creature advantage. Unless your deck is designed to take that creature advantage early and keep it, then it's not very useful. I'd assert that maintaining the creature advantage is simply too difficult. 2. Mass creature assaults. For example, it wouldn't be all that difficult to put together a deck that dumped a pile of red creatures on the table and then used Apocalypse or Jokulhaups to clear everything off the table- except for the folks coming into play once the Portcullis is gone. Not sure if this is practical, though. -Len Blado