Subject: DON'T PANIC: The end of Interrupts, Part 2 Date: Tue, 01 Dec 1998 17:29:53 PST From: "Dominick Riesland" To: fkusumot@ix.netcom.com When I first relayed the rumor from Mtgnews.com about the proposal to make interrupts into instants, there was minimal response. Now that it has been confirmed by an official of WotC, there is a firestorm afoot. I have had two months since the last post to contemplate the changes, and I offer this advice in large, friendly letters: DON'T PANIC. Here is a classic example of panic: >Hello all, > I felt the need to address, and rebutt, some of the ideas and >arguments surrounding the Sixth Edition rules changes. I feel >that many of the changes in the rules will be detrimental to the >game and will create a rebellious attitude towards the game as a >whole. > First off I would like to address the notion of removing the >interrupt mechanic from the game. If, indeed, WOTC plans on >removing that mechanic from the game and to change all >counterspells from interrupt to instant status, then what does >that mean for resolution of batches. Here is the logic: > -I start a batch by announcing I am casting Disenchant. (For my purposes, I will assume that the Disenchant is targeting the CoP: White mentioned later in the example.) > -normally you would interrupt "the successful casting of >the spell" with counterspell. > This would be an "intuitive and simple" mechanic. Actually, by current (i.e. 5th Edition) rules, you do not interrupt the "successful casting" of anything, as a spell is only "successfully cast" if it survives all the interrupt batches and does not get countered. > -However, Counterspell is an instant. Instead, you must >let the spell be successfully cast so that you may respond to it. >This is counterintuitive. Not true. The definition of a succesfully cast spell must change, but in a good way, IMHO. A spell by the 6E model can only be considered successfully cast at the moment it tries to resolve, as there may or may not be countering effects later in the batch. As a result, there can no longer be a gap between "successfully cast" and "resolving" a spell. This is more intuitive than what there is now. >But, lets continue... > -In response to your Counterspell, I cast Inferno. You >have a COP: White in Play. > -You would normally interrupt that with your Purelace, >but that card now has errata that you can't see. It says that it >is an instant that targets a spell being successfully cast, or it >targets a permanent already in play. OH. Purelace would, under 6E Rules, read: "Instant. Target spell or permanent is white." Since there will no longer be interrupts, the rule that instants cannot target spells being cast will be dropped, as will the rule that interrupts targeting permanents are played as instants. > -In response to my Inferno you cast Purelace, targeting the >inferno. > -In response to that I cast Counterspell targeting your >Counterspell. > -LETS RESOLVE THE BATCH! > -Counterspell 2 nails Counterspell 1. Purelace whitens the >Inferno. >Inferno deals 6 dam. So far, so good. The fact that such things as these can happen is why we have to wait for a spell to resolve before we can call it successfully cast. (Otherwise, the Disenchant would have been first successfully, then unsuccessfully, then successfully cast.) > You can now activate your COP to prevent the damage. This is assumed to be the case, but we'll have to wait for the actual rules to be published before we know for certain. >Disenchant goes off! > This whole process of batch resolution and when and where a >spell is a spell will become blurred beyond belief. In order for >a spell to be responded to, it has to exist. That means it hasn't >been countered, or otherwise directly negated. The Interrupt and >the Interrupt window are fundamental and intuitive components of >the game. Can you imagine the errata on Power Sink and Mana >Drain!?! "UX Instant -Counter target spell unless its caster >pays an additional X...right now...not later...now. The caster of >targeted spell MUST do this and must tap all of his lands...NOW. >Oh yeah, he can't cast anything else until this spell is >resolved...UNLESS its an instant that used to be an interrupt." Er, no. Power Sink gets a touch weaker, but in line with what even some experienced players who have been out of the tournament scene believed always was the case. Power Sink remains unchanged in wording (from the Urza's Saga/Tempest wording, that is) and only forces the choice when it resolves. This weakens it by allowing instants to be played in response. Expect things like this to take place, and by this time next year, to be accepted and even welcomed by the majority. > Second, NO DAMAGE PREVENTION PHASE??? hmmm... this makes >little sense. I will have to see the rules to find out what the replacement is, but I trust Bethmo enough to wait for answers on this one. >Yes, its true, I will be able to respond to your lightning bolt >with a healing salve. Haven't I always been able to do that? Technically, no you haven't. What you did was allowed the LB to resolve, which created the damage, then a Damage Prevention Step opened, during which damage prevention and redirection effects were the only instants allowed, (with any interrupts that applied and of course mana sources as well) of which your Healing Salve would be one of them. >The issue that is involved isn't that I can respond. The issue >is when I can respond and when are you not allowed to add effects. >In a nutshell, when are you not allowed to add creature enhancers >during an attack phase? example: > -I'm attacking with Force of Nature (8/8 trample) > -You block with Cerulean Wyvern (3/3 Flying; prot Green) > -We go to "post blocking fast effects". > -I play Giant Growth targeting my FoN. You respond by >playing Healing Salve. Under current rules, that's not possible. Damage has not been dealt, therefore the Damage Prevention aspect of Healing Salve is not legal. You can play it now to gain three life and indirectly counteract some of the impending trample if you wish, but that was never part of Damage Prevention. > -I respond to your Healing Salve with a Lightning Bolt >targeting the Wyvern. > -We go to Damage assignment. WAIT...What happens!?! No, first we go to resolving the batch of instants. Lightning Bolt deals three damage to the Wyvern. This would destroy it, assuming that you used the Healing Salve to gain the life and didn't hold it for a need such as this. Although I don't know what the Rules Team really wants this now to be, I will assume that the lack of an actual damage prevention step simply means that damage prevention effects will act like current replacement abilities, replacing the damage with the appropriate smaller amount of damage. In this case, you would open up a "batch within a batch" for the Healing Salve to prevent the damage, which would be subject to the appropriate responses. If not, the other logical choice I see would be for the damage to wait until the end of the batch to actually happen. The damage in this case might linger until the next batch resolved, allowing for Healing Salves and the like to be played while there was actually damage on the creature waiting to be prevented. Or it could be something else. > -Well, the Wyvern dies, right? Well, you could save it with >a healing salve...couldn't you? If you have another one and choose to use it, theoretically yes. > When do you stop playing and adding effects? When does >the batch resolve!?! The same time it always did: once players stop adding to it. > -So, lets resolve the first thing. Wyvern dies. You gain 3 >life (you are at 12, now). > FoN gets +3/+3. Can I add anything else? I mean, are we >able to? You have always been free to start a new batch once that one resolved but before creatures dealt damage. > -If so, I'd like to Elvish Fury with Buyback Five times. >add a lightning bolt or two. You'd need five batches minimum to do it, but this is allowed even now. > You oughta be sufficiently cooked. BUT WAIT! > -There is no Damage Prevention phase! You can't use that >COP:Green or Red.... > Jeesh, What was I thinking...OVERKILL!?! And this is why this is an example of panic. The removal of the damage prevention step doesn't mean that damage prevention effects' will vanish or become meaningless. It will simply change when they can be used. If you want to see why such changes are needed, examine this situation: I cast a Spike Feeder. You have a Mogg Fanatic in play. There is also a Lifeline in play; it doesn't matter for this purpose who controls it. Let's also give each of us a Grave Pact. Now, if I am wily, I can remove counter #1 and respond by removing counter #2. These are costs, and as such cannot be prevented (you could have Interdicted the first activation and thus prevented the second one by current rules, but let's not assume that for now). This triggers Grave Pact and Lifeline, forcing you to sacrifice the Mogg Fanatic to the Grave Pact and not to its ability. Furthermore the Lifeline will not trigger for you, as its condition is not met. Change your Mogg Fanatic to a Blood Vassal. Now you get to be wily, as you can sacrifice the Vassal during the "series for coming into play abilities of the Spike Feeder." Never mind that there need not be such abilities in existence; Blood Vassal's ability is a mana source, and can be played during series that might exist but in fact do not. The Lifeline and your Grave Pact trigger, and I now have to sacrifice the Feeder before I can do anything with it, and I don't get to bring the Feeder back with Lifeline either. If we decide to hold off for a while, we can get really silly and sacrifice Blood Vassal after it blocks the Spike Feeder and does lethal damage to the Feeder but before it dies to the lethal damage done to it. This is by no means intuitive. I have not seen what is in store with the new rules. All I can do is take what I know to be true and attempt to combine it into a coherent set of rules. And from what I have seen, the message is clear: DON'T PANIC. Dominick Riesland, "The TURNABOUT Guy" Almost Official Milwaukee M:tG Rules Guru DCI Level II Judge (at least for now) =============================================== There are 3 types of ogres: good ogres, bad ogres and mediogres. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com